There are far less invasive ways to a healthy musical career if such a thing even exists. Herbs have done for me what better living through chemistry has not been able to do herbs have been a last resort for me on multiple occasions, and I keep going back to them because they work when used correctly! Herbs have also not been able to do for me what better living through chemistry has only been able to do! I'm also an amateur player who does not play for others nearly often enough, and I am fairly crippled with performance anxiety.
You should be discussing all of this with a highly qualified medical practitioner. The homeopathic Arg Nit is considered very effective for performance anxiety where one has mistakes that build upon mistakes. Homeopathic Gelsemium, to my knowledge, is another "remedy" which is considered best for performance anxiety that dissipates once one gets in the groove. Quite different remedies! I am posting this here because it is available for the public on the internet with a few searches.
NEVER mix herbs with medications, or take when pregnant or breastfeeding, or in general without the guidance of a highly qualified medical practitioner. For those who have dealt with performance anxiety: what was your cause of it? Was it fear of failure, fear of lack of capability, inability to access "flow", fear of judgment? What is your performance anxiety related to? I ask, as I suspect based on a lot of other V.
I'm sure working with a qualified therapist EMDR therapy is great to help address these issues would be a goldmine of beta-blocker free material. Albeit more time consuming than taking herbs, or having the instant help of a beta blocker! And, there is no shame in taking a beta blocker if it is safe to do so. You will need a beta blocker that comes in a dosage that you can divide, since the dose used to relieve performance adrenaline effects is far smaller than the dose used to control blood pressure.
Most physicians will write prescriptions for musicians for this purpose. Musicians who take beta blockers for performance nerves vary significantly. There are people who use them multiple times per week because they play in major symphonies with performances several times a week.
And there are people who use them very occasionally -- for instance, for major auditions or major solo performances. I think the naturopathic sites that discuss "natural beta blockers" typically talking about reducing the effects of stress and anxiety on people who are chronically stressed or have generalized anxiety -- that's why you'll often see them mentioned as an alternative to SSRIs, for instance, and not the beta-blocker drugs used to lower blood pressure or deal with acute effects of performance adrenaline.
And they are generally not referring to blocking the actual receptors for adrenaline, but rather, getting the nutritional elements necessary to ensure that your brain handles neurotransmitters properly. I think it's easy to be judgmental about the use of beta blockers by other people -- especially if you yourself are not dependent upon beta blockers in order to be able to earn a living.
For a professional musician, if taking a pill for an audition makes the difference between being able to land a six-figure full-time job with decent benefits and job security, and patching together freeway philharmonic gigs to scrape out a living without health insurance, well, an interloper is frankly a judgment jerk with zero empathy if they tell that musician that they should just cope and suck up the financial instability.
People should do what they need to do to earn a living. No one lives an optimally healthy life, either. If you do, congratulations, but expect to be flipped the bird if you are sanctimonious about it. Rational adults can consider the trade-offs and decide what's best for them.
Using beta blockers on a daily basis is different than occasional use. Never take a beta blocker for the first time before a big performance, though; you won't know how it affects you and you have to get the dosage right, too.
The effects are different for different people. That includes not just violin performances whether solo, chamber, or orchestra , but also the public speaking engagements that are a routine part of my job. For some time, I have been puzzling over the fact that these adrenaline surges seem unrelated to my level of preparation or mental state.
Indeed, I can feel nervous but not really get the big surge that causes one or both hands to shake, or I can feel mentally very calm but still get that surge. I suspect that in some cases this is actually simply adrenaline as energy -- but an excess of it, so that something that might be good turns into something with detrimental physical effects.
I imagine I'm not alone in these kinds of reactions. If your kid has talent, it seems like sadism to me to make them play solo to an audience if the kid doesn't like it. But that's the nature of music, unfortunately, unless you remain anonymous in an orchestra. They may or may not have had a placebo effect, but he claims that they helped. They are touted as an homeopathic solution for stress and anxiety.
The water molecules are supposed to "remember" the active ingredient, which is eventually diluted out to something on the order of a teaspoon in Lake Erie. A silly idea of 18th century German origin, no better than other quack cures of the time.
Homeopathy must be one of the longest-running scams. Just imagine how much money you can make by giving someone water with pretty much nothing in it. And the fact that these "remedies' are unregulated and unverified, thanks to people like Orin Hatch, whose state is an epicenter for bottled nothing, makes it worse. They even adulterate basic vitamins--I no longer trust any of that stuff. Those who advise to use willpower to "get over" an overactive adrenaline response -- I'm curious if you feel the same way about drugs to treat other medical issues i.
Beta blockers are used by professionals more than you can imagine, orchestral musicians, chamber music, and soloists. Ultimately, this is a discussion between you and a doctor. I would not allow the advise here to sway you one way or the other. Finally, good luck with your performance anxiety struggle. The struggle can be very real for many performers, and there are solutions. I have the same surges, but mine also are accompanied by a hyper-critical mental state with the violin - which is not present when teaching other material, or giving speeches, but is present at other times in my day-to-day life.
It seems the adrenaline rush of any kind of performance simply amplifies this tendency. A couple of professional musicians whom I was recently in conversation with said that the issue of performance anxiety is something that everyone has dealt with at one time or another, and it is an indicator as to lack of being able to get into "flow state" and to "let go" to play the music.
I agree with them, but then the question arises as to how to best access flow and to truly let go? There's a lot of trust involved in that - in oneself, the audience, other musicians, etc. As you said, when a comfortable job rests on one audition - how is that not going to affect someone? Krista - I love those Bach Pastilles! Thanks for the reminder about them.
Lydia, again, re: SSRI's vs adrenaline receptor blocking, that's the thing. MOST herbal information available on the internet from all of the low-quality sites that come up when you type in "natural beta blockers" list run of the mill anxiety herbs which do work more in the vein of SSRI's see: St. John's Wort, lemon balm, etc. If one works with an individual, a complex herbal formula can be created to address acute moments of anxiety as well as long-term anxiety.
Herbs have complex chemical makeups, and for the ancient Chinese there are varying causes of anxiety including surges of, as in the case of performance anxiety and options to work with. All this to say, there is more than what's offered on the internet AND I'm not saying that there is a solution to this "natural beta blocker" question.
Beta blockers certainly prevent the body from getting to the place where energy needs to be redirected, but the cause of it is not being addressed at a deeper level. I'm not disagreeing with you, just offering another point of view. Andrew - thanks for the link! I remember that thread, going to revisit it now. I've taken them in the past and had nothing happen, and other times they seemed to work some kind of magic. I mentioned homeopathics because they are by all accounts safe for pretty much anyone to take.
If they work placebo effect or not , great. It terrified me, but I never thought of refusing to do it, whereas I refused to go to Sunday school and I refused orthodonty.
Apart from that, I can't really recall my feelings about anything. I can recall being more nervous in front of a tape recorder than in front of an audience, though! And you are getting that ingredient mixed in with a bunch of other things, in all likelihood. And each plant will contain a different amount of that compound, which means that you cannot get a precisely measured and consistent dosage, and cannot really predict the effects.
I'd rather take a pill and know precisely what I'm getting. And even then, when you get generics vs a branded pill, there are differences too. Which is why I always buy a specific brand when possible. Han N. And natural. Just a little - not enough to make you even slightly tipsy!!
I want to try beta blockers, but like so many people I've had it pounded through my thick skull that somehow that it's some kind of cop-out, and all I need is more experience.
We'll I'm in my 50s. Just how much experience do I need?? And so, this very thread has me doing something about it! I'm calling my doctor tomorrow to get an appointment. So I guess you're right Or something. So it's a matter of how you approach your own life. The upset stomach would make me nauseous, and it would start an entire chain of adrenaline effects. Now I take a chewable Alka-Seltzer, and that totally eliminates the problem.
And that by itself has hugely reduced my pre-performance nerves. Still get the shakes sometimes, though. My teacher has taught me how to mitigate that somewhat technically, but that involves compromises that are not, for instance, audition-acceptable. Are there specific physical processes that can be employed while playing that you've found useful towards that end?
I hope the question makes sense--can't quite think of another way to phrase it at the moment. So for right-hand shakes, split up the bowings -- use much more bow than you normally would. It's useful to practice the opening of your program with an alternative bowing -- or simply choose your default bowing to be for the bow-shakes if you figure they are inevitable.
But I can get bow-shakes mid-work, too; I'm generally comfortable changing my planned bowings if I need to. For left-hand shakes, stop any deliberate vibrato until the tremor stops. Some vibrato will probably happen anyway thanks to the tremor. Sorry, I can't remember the name, but it definitely exists. If your nerves are not too extreme maybe you could give that a try?
Tony, and everyone else trivialising performance anxiety: may I suggest you don't give advice on a medical condition yes, it is a medical condition unless you have experienced it to this level. I figured it was something along those lines, though I see how these strategies might be questionable in an audition. Although intelligent bowing selection for shake-problem areas certainly seems like it could have a place in audition prep.
Given that excess adrenaline primes us neurologically to run from a tiger, rather than to play music, I have to wonder if the fight-or-flight response actually alters the pattern in which we recruit muscle groups for playing.
Perhaps the answer is to practice on the treadmill But that's one data point. If science has taught us anything, it's that anecdotal evidence may be grounds for a hypothesis, but not a conclusion. The road to a conclusion in pharmacology is long, difficult, and expensive. The reason people think herbs have zero side effects is precisely because they have not been studied in nearly as much detail, so the incidence is "zero" only because it's not known. The side-effects of propranolol are rigorously documented from over 50 years of clinical use link below.
The other important thing to consider is desired effect vs. Once again, with herbs often the desired effect is not known because it's not been studied, or because the concentration of the active substance is so variable that a study would be pointless. You could isolate and purify the active substance, but then you've got a drug, not an herb, and all the romance from which its efficacy as a placebo is likely derived is lost. Please understand that I'm not anti-herbs, just pro-science.
Exiting this thread now. The term "herbs" is so vague, and can cover so many kinds of plants and compounds that you can't guarantee this. In fact, this is the problem with so many supposedly "safe" products: People hear "herb" or "all-natural" and think "safe. For example, beets are a "natural" product. But they have compounds which, over time, can lead to kidney stones in those genetically at risk for them.
It's wishful thinking, like the current thinking about cannabis: solves all, no side affects. As for homeopathy: I don't have anything against the placebo effect, which can be powerful. Wider-scale research is needed to confirm these effects in larger populations. The organization recommends eating fish rich in omega-3 at least twice a week or taking a 1 gram daily omega-3 supplement.
There are very few risks from eating most fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, fish, or meat unless a person is allergic to them. Most herbs and spices also carry minimal risk of negative side effects if people consume them in moderation.
However, some fruits, vegetables, and nuts can be high in calories , fat, or sugar. Other herbs and supplements may also interact with prescription medications or other supplements. Beta-blockers may also reduce blood pressure by reducing the production of the hormone angiotensin II, which can increase blood pressure. Nonselective beta-blockers block adrenaline and noradrenaline in the heart and other parts of the body.
This may cause undesirable side effects, such as increasing the risk of asthma attacks. Selective beta-blockers are more common because they specifically target the heart tissues, which reduces the risk of side effects. According to a study , beta-blockers are common in managing and treating cardiovascular conditions. The type of beta-blocker that people use depends on their condition, how severe the health issue is, and whether they have a chronic illness.
Beta-blockers can cause a range of side effects , including:. If the side effects worsen or do not improve with over-the-counter or home remedies, an individual should also contact a healthcare professional. People with a history of the following conditions should talk to a doctor before using natural beta-blockers:.
Many foods, herbs, spices, and supplements contain ingredients that mimic the effects of beta-blockers. These natural sources of beta-blockers are widely available and are safe to consume in moderation. People should contact a doctor before changing their diet, starting a new supplement, or trying beta-blockers for the first time. Beta-blockers are a type of medication that can treat heart conditions. Some doctors also prescribe them to ease the symptoms of anxiety.
Learn more…. Consuming alcohol while taking beta-blockers can potentially make them less effective, and it may increase the risk of side effects. Sara Adaes Ph. D Neuroscience, Neuropharmacology. Summary Beta-blockers decrease the symptoms of acute anxiety by reducing heartbeat, blood pressure, breathing rate, and tremors. Why do beta-blockers have anxiolytic effects? Evidence-based natural alternatives to beta-blockers Anxiety therapy is one of the most extensively researched applications of herbal products in mood disorders.
Lemon Balm Melissa officinalis Lemon balm is a common herb used traditionally for its mild sedative effects. Piper methysticum Kava Kava is a medicinal plant that has been used traditionally as a relaxant. Receive the latest articles about brain health. Table of Contents Summary Why do beta-blockers have anxiolytic effects? Evidence-based natural alternatives to beta-blockers Passionflower Passiflora incarnata Lemon Balm Melissa officinalis Piper methysticum Kava References.
Understanding the pharmacokinetics of anxiolytic drugs. Expert Opin Drug Metab Toxicol. Sarris J. Herbal medicines in the treatment of psychiatric disorders: year updated review.
Phyther Res. CNS Drugs. Passionflower in the treatment of generalized anxiety: a pilot double-blind randomized controlled trial with oxazepam. J Clin Pharm Ther. Anesth Analg. Effects of passiflora incarnata and midazolam for control of anxiety in patients undergoing dental extraction. Modulation of mood and cognitive performance following acute administration of Melissa officinalis lemon balm.
Pharmacol Biochem Behav. Psychosom Med. Heart palpitation relief with Melissa officinalis leaf extract: Double blind, randomized, placebo controlled trial of efficacy and safety.
J Ethnopharmacol. Pittler MH, Ernst E. Kava extract versus placebo for treating anxiety. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. January
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